Vortex BW - Build Log/Diary

'Ullo.

Thought I’d give an update on how things be going in preparation for Burgh 3. The main challenges have been

  • Getting some more reliability into the bot
  • Losing some flab to not be overweight on arrival
  • Using that lost flab for better forks

In lights of that, some loose ends have been tidied up and a few other areas have had a judicial lightening programme applied. Now to hope that it doesn’t just split in half on hitting something…

The backplate was a part of the robot I’d designed to be a bit overkill, it’s pocketed 10mm 6082-T6 but there was definitely some excess material in there. So it’s had a mild redesign, with an external skim to remove some material. It shaves about 35g from the bot, not much but every little helps.


Shiny…

The wiring loom will need redone, I’ve bought wire to start again so that can be accomplished. I will need another drive motor and gearbox too to get the proof of movement over by the 11th. Thanks to the input of you fine folks, a fuse-in-link setup will be attempted going forward which should much simplify things!

The wheel hubs have also been redesigned, and professionally made! The old handmade chaos will be kept as spares, but the new shiny units are much nicer. They’re actually concentric so no more wheel wobble (at least before a fight…) and there’s little threads for retaining screws so no more super-glued wheel retainers. They also have an internal D to match the BBB gearboxes which is nice, even if everything gets a lil loose they should still transmit power.


Bag o’ goodies. There is a D-profile in there: honest

So that’s everything as we stand today, there’s a bunch of 3D printing I’ll be getting done at the tail end of this month including new forks which should make the bot drive a bit better. I think I’ll use Ranglebox for that, so far have been very impressed by Ellis’ TPU work.

Thanks for following on folks!

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A quick update whilst it’s still shiny, the robot is ready for Burgh. The direct-soldered receiver has freed up a lot of space in the stage-left hand side of the robot, it’s still all tight and things are held apart with tape still (…) but it’s better than it was.


ARRRRRGGGGGHHHH

The front forks are now new, and made from TPU with a GR5 Titanium core to them The idea is the TPU flexes, allows the fork to runalong the floor but the Ti gives a sharp edge to get in under stuff. We’ll see if this works, the forks are solidly mounted to the frame so they at least provide some counterbalance to the terrible weight distribution.



New fork design. There is a small damn up top to stop stuff shooting up them and into the weapon supports, we’ll see how that goes

The MOST important new thing though is, of course, that the disc is now polished up and rocking a bare metal look. This is by far the biggest change, and is sponsored by Brasso.

We’ll see how Burgh goes! I’m not hoping or expecting for much, it’s fairly likely the bot will be swept out the arena I think. Ideally I’d like at least one, decently long slugfest to see if the innards can withstand prolonged use in combat. For 2024 however, I see there being a whole new machine that is hopefully less temperamental…



feat. Obligatory Stickerz

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Hello fine people of BBB!

Burgh has come and gone and overall, as a first beetle, I’m very pleased with Vortex BW. It does its thing :grinning:


We all love a bit of merch don’t we?

The first hurdle at the event was getting through tech checks, I don’t (yet…) have anywhere to test Vortex’s weapon so whilst I knew it’d twitch and the motor had detected fine I hadn’t spun anything heavy since Subterranean. When we plonked the lil dude in the test box it would do maybe 20 revolutions before everything locked solid. Bugger. I traced that fault, eventually, to some bronze shim washers I’d put between the disc pulleys and bulkheads to act as thrust washers. These would, instead, just start chewing into the ali frame and gall everything up. I disposed of them and just accepted I’d have a bit of end float on the weapon, and after that it spun up well.


My draw was relatively kind, no Slice or Shrekt! The first fight was BoomZoom, who went on to get 2nd place. BoomZoom is quick but I got some good hits on him, bent his lifter arm and chewed up the front end. However, Rob’s superior driving resulted in me getting pitted. 0-1

Fight 2 was a rematch from Sub against SadBoi, except this time I’d have a weapon! Tom was very pleased with the Hardox Extreme front plate on SadBoi, and it was worrysome to me. SadBoi bullied me around a bit, slammed me into some sad places but eventually I got a good clock on his front plate and ripped the whole thing right off! SadBoi opened the pit and I got half stuck on it, however with SadBoi being now well under 1kg I could lob him from end-to-end of the arena every time he tried to push me down. Sadly, however, gravity was not on my side and eventually I ended up pitted again. 0-2


Very SadBoi…


A slightly dull disc tooth from eating Hardox extreme

Comparison of a healthier tooth (not fully healthy mind)

Fight 3 was against The Wider One 2, a huge spinner to contrast my dinky one. Alys had a gameplan here, go for my wheels and it was working pretty well for a bit. I managed to get some hits on their frame and took off a wing from them, then after a particularly big hit Wider One stopped. The linkblock was loose on Wider One and they were counted out for Vortex’s (and my) first ever KO win :heart: thank you Alys, 1-2


1 Wider One wing is wider than my entire bot, they ain’t joking when they say it’s long

Bent fork prongs were the only real damage from day 1, an easy swap

1-2 from fight night was not enough to hit the top 16 sadly, however I was very happy with how Vortex was performing. It had run reliably, dished out some big hits and not taken any major damage so I left after day 1 feeling pretty pleased.



Day 2, photography taking place where testing should go…

That translated into some complacency when I signed up for the doubles tournament the next day with Mark Smith’s Kreigmeister. What I should have done was a nice early systems test to make sure everything was okay for day 2, but I didn’t. Hence when the box was locked and the fight started Vortex simply refused to spin. One hit from Yam and I was upside down and out, leaving Mark in a 2v1.

I feel I let Mark down there as I think with both of us working we could have had that fight, so apologies to him and a hard lesson learned for the future. The weapon motor had bound up, however reversing it caused it to free up and it has not caused any problems since. I think the weapon motor must have ingested something, but what that was we’ll never know. I might strip the motor right down over winter and see if there’s any damage to it that could explain, maybe a shattered/cracked magnet?


Really picked its moment to decide to be a diva

My final fight was a 4-way melee whiteboard, that was a good old-skool tussle. Vortex BW isn’t really designed for multi-bot stuff, it’s very directional in its attack and setup, but melees are fun! I was in with Belladrum, which is a nasty lil thing and it did manage to clip one of my wheels off. That was just the grub screw hub sliding off so not the end of the world, but it did show me how hard gyro driving is! I left one hell of a dent in Dave’s pit in this fight, apologies to his floor!


The offending wheel. I really must file in some notches to retain the grub screws next time!



The only frame damage I took all weekend, from Belladrum I think(?). Only a nick really, the disc seemed to hit things before they hit me


So overall, I think Vortex BW had a good event! I went there to see if I had built a machine that was reliable and could deliver hits for 2 minutes. The answer to that is yes, it kept on ticking and the only thing that really let it down was me skimping on routine checks. The bot hits like a train and did some good damage, I’m very happy with taking SadBoi’s face off. And it won a fight!

However, there’s lots of things still to improve. A compiled list would be as below.

GOOD

  • The weapon is reliable and hits damn, damn hard
  • The drive was very responsive, and it’s a nippy so and so
  • The frame is solid, probably too solid tbh. There is a slight tweak in it, as evidenced below but it was sent flying around and only took one nick

    Not the most obvious to see, but there’s witness marks on one side of the pulley and not the other suggesting this wasn’t running straight and true by the end of the event
  • The weapon reach lets you just go gung-ho into fights
  • The EPDM “tyres” are pretty solid given they’re just adhesived on and they are fairly grippy as well as very easy to patch up and repair


    Patched up, but still solid! PLA+ interiors with EPDM foam tyres, supergluing the ends of the foam was a good hack for keeping the tread on
  • TPU forks with a Ti inner look promising, but need more finessing
  • The disc setup has enough power to spin up from standstill, whilst the bot is upside down. That means I can continue with weapon self righting

BAD

  • There is no space inside the bot, so working on it is a pig. If it needs repairs then it’s a nightmare

    Folks always seem surprised by the size of Vortex BW, Diet Coke for a sense of perspective
  • The wheelbase is mega short, so it can easily have wheels lifted
  • The weight distribution is a shambles, that goes hand-in-hand with above and needs sorting
  • Top and bottom armour is very fragile. It’s survived 2 events, but 1mm carbon is just tempting fate…

    The stickers of Oscar the Sea Lion did survive though, the thing I know everyone was worrying about
  • Some bits of the chassis are defo too thick and could do with reducing in weight
  • Some parts are a bit hefty too, such as the battery being a good 200mAh bigger than many others at Burgh

So a new Vortex BW will defo be getting designed over winter and debuted next year, exactly when I don’t know but its coming! It’ll still be 4WD, I like the idea of making something custom and funky. I also like the idea of playing with the track width front and rear, that could give the bot a cool look. I expected this version of the machine to be absolutely creamed at Burgh so I’m genuinely surprised it’s still running. I think I’ll keep it running for whiteboards etc :slightly_smiling_face:


This is probs the last update for 2023, but the future looks bright for 2024. Thanks for following along, and I’ll be sure to keep this thread nice and updated with progress on V2 (actually V8 if you account for all the failed designs :no_mouth:) as it comes together.

Much love :heart:

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You might get lucky with the motor, often times the magnets slip down out of their retaining slots. Easy push back and epoxy. I don’t really see why Vortex is so hard on motors, yeah it’s a heavy disc and you do engage well but it’s an alarming body count, 1 per event?

Looking forward to seeing where it goes mate. I imagine you can claw a lot of weight (& space!) Out of a new frame.

Is the v1 being patched for whiteboards etc or will it be retooled into the next version?

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The sitting on the pit edge dishing out hits to sad boi was on of my fave moments of the weekend. Nice to see you again and awesome job :slight_smile:

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Great write-up Sean, thanks for taking the time to share it!

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Don’t worry about it, dude it happens, just bring it back better and more reliable and it will be mean SoB, I would personally look at xing2 motors, little monsters, loads of power, reliable easily available. also if possible think PU rubber tyres are a possibility?

Hello world. Long time no speak, apologies about that.

Vortex BW ended 2023 on a mixed note - it ran reasonably well but it was a pain to work with and it wasn’t very good at actually winning fights. It did dish out some big hits though, and it was most importantly fairly entertaining. The masterplan was for the bot to return in 2024 and do some more events, but the best laid plans etc etc.

The 2024 redesign was hinged around designing my own drives for it, and I even got to CAD-ing custom gearboxes that would live within the frame rails (think Rapid from S9/10) but I hit 2 stumbling blocks with that

  • General apathy once I realised how much work it would be and how liable the bot would be to catastrophic drive failure if anything shifted or bent.
  • The stonking cost of MOD 0.5 gears from places like Gears and Sprockets. I was genuinely stunned by the cost of this, it was well north of £200 for the gears needed plus a full spare set.

    Where this was going before money intervened

So out went that idea. And with it went most of the impetus to do the bot. Follow that up with some hefty car related bills and the drive for V2 died down somewhat. Don’t do Alfa Romeos kids - not even once

At the tail end of the year I looked at going to Burgh 4 with the existing machine, I even signed up via Rampage but work then required a lengthy visit to China right in mid-November and that stole all the required build time. So Burgh 4 ended up not happening either. 2024 - washout.


China - hell of a place

However, the announcement of Burgh 5 and a want to support the hobby north of the border saw me dust off Vortex BW in the last couple of weeks. This time, I decided to take a more pragmatic approach to the design

  • Fix the bad (mostly)
  • Only do what needs done
  • Leave design heroics to someone capable like Ellis or Harry

Hence Vortex BW V2 (now actually V9.2) is born!


Now in Technicolor

Here the lowdown

My main goal with this redesign was to make the bot bigger. V1 was absolutely dinky and that made it possible to make some of the design choices seen on that machine. But it meant that the wheelbase was way too short and hence the thing didn’t always want to turn. It also meant there was zero space inside the bot and stuff had to be creatively packaged. Like a major bundle of wires that was wrapped in sacrificial tape to stop the weapon motor eating them away…


NEVER AGAIN


Now there’s more air between components. The interior volume is still just 190x83mm so it’s not exactly huge but it is a lot bigger than before

This could only be accomplished by making parts of the robot lighter - but the good news was the frame had proven really sturdy on V1 and that probably meant there were efficiency savings to make! So out are the pocketed 10mm frame rails of yore and in are a mix of 6 and 8mm ones. The weapon is held within the 8mm ones and the front and back are now 6mm. This also freed up a bit of internal space, and allowed the machine to become slightly narrower whilst still fitting everything in which was welcome.

The wheelbase is up from 40mm to 63mm, and the disc now sits within the wheelbase rather than hanging out front of it. This should give me better control, the V1 machine didn’t want to turn when the disc was on and part of that is the gyroscope effect. But part of it is also due to the robot having horrid weight distribution and wanting to fall forward every time it turned; the CoG is now within the wheelbase so it should handle better. It’ll never be perfect, but it should be less awful.



For comparison, the new design is top with the old unit below. The wheelbase is ~50% greater for hopefully better handling

The bot will still retain some design features. It’ll still be made from CNC’d aluminium and it’ll still have a honking massive disc. I might even go so far as to have a 2nd disc made with bigger teeth as I reckon it could use more bite. It’ll retain the exposed front/rear drive belts as they add a bit of charm. But hopefully it will drive a bit better and rely less on the opponent coming to me in order to attack things.


Potential disc with bigger teeth - in this case paired to a TPU weapon pulley which buys me little weight should it be needed

One thing that will remain is the ability to configure the front armour. I think I’ll make big TPU bumpers to try and ward off horizontals and maybe even a wedge? It’ll certainly keep the TPU forks with Ti centres as that seemed to work really well - although this time I might not cut the Ti myself as that resulted in some terrible quality parts going on the robot.


I’m undecided on this. I like how dumb it looks, and TPU is probably the apex material for this, but it also might backfire. We’ll see if this gets made or not

I am swapping over to the Repeat Robotics square wheel hubs; my own hex ones worked well but they’re hard to justify if an off-the-shelf product exists and is stocked in the UK by good folks. I’ve released the CAD for those on GrabCAD if anyone need a very small wheel hub design that suits a 4mm D-shaft. Please feel free to use them as needed - https://grabcad.com/library/hex-wheel-hub-for-4mm-d-shaft-1

So that’s where we stand today. I should be able to order the chassis at the end of the month and then proceed with the build toward June - hopefully I’ll see some of you good folks at Burgh 5. For now, the design tomfoolery is paused to just get a working, hopefully reliable beetle. I do have an idea for something dumb that I might build in the future to scratch that itch. We’ll just need to wait and see!

Love as always,

Sean.

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My favorite vert returns! Awesome stuff mate.

Love the dual output gearbox, I think that absolutely has potential. However I think you’ve fallen into the classic hurdle of trying to do locally sourced engineering. Technobots/G&S has a special place in my heart but it just cannot compete with the Chinese Dream Machine.

All of my gearing needs are taken by repurposing Chinese schlop normally lazily scalped from the AliExpress choice page (because 7 day turnaround often matches the UK) RC pinions and spur are a godsend, honestly. I recently bought some 45t 0.5 mod 7075 gears to interface with rangle hardware (weirdly doing the polar opposite to yourself and putting two motors to a single output) and it was something like £4.

Using common sizes like 0.6, 0.8 mod (or the semi compatible 64 and 32DP imperial equivalent) for initial stages then ganging up to printed gears (honestly once you go above 0.8mod you’re fine with FDM) I can see you approaching a twenty quid a unit, 30 with all the boring bits like bearings, fasteners and retention.

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Thanks Harry, off the shelf gears from China might be a good option for a future machine so I’ll have a look into that! It might not be for this robot but it could work well for something dumb in future! I like dumb things.

Just a quick update to prove I am actually building this and wont be a failure like last year. Parts are being ordered as we speak! I’ve got 2 new dinky batteries (LiPos are cheap now, we live in the future) and I’ve placed an order with Ellis for some 3D printing. Mostly wheels and bits n bobs like spacers, the frame will again be all 6082-T6

I have had this frame costed up and agreed a price, it’ll be coming from China as I’ve had good experiences there. That needs to wait until payday but thankfully that’s only Friday. This time I’m going to get 2 frames made as everything is thinner now - I’m not going as far as building 2 whole versions of the bot but I can swap any chassis part out for a spare should I need to. I think that might be necessary, whilst V1 didn’t suffer much frame damage it also didn’t fight anyone really capable of splitting the chassis. At Burgh, there absolutely will be machines there capable of this (cough Slice cough) and sadly repair isn’t much of an option on the fly.

The above also means I’m committing to this design for a bit - if this works reasonably well then I’d be very happy just keeping it ticking and doing events with it when the mood takes me. That’s a lot of words to say I’ve not been down to Bristol in too long.

I did an inventory count of spares I have from V1 and the good news is the innards can almost entirely come from that. V1 can also live in a semi-stasis - it might go to the odd event for whiteboards but it can live on mostly complete.

The next update should be sometime in May with a reasonably built bot - watch this space

Much love :heart:

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Hello hello,

Exciting day today, the frame parts all arrived in the post! They look fantastic thankfully, and the immediate fit and finish is solid. I decided to forgo the tapping of all the threaded holes on these parts to reduce costs which may prove to be my single greatest folly. I have some decent taps so hopefully this goes well, watch this space…




The plan is to get this running this weekend hopefully! Not in a fully finished state but at least driving about to pass PoM for Burgh.

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i read this, and paniced that the POM was this weekend. small jumpscare.

cant wait to see it live in june!

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Hello Hello,

I’d hoped to get this update out last weekend but unfortunately my tap set snaked me - I only had a very tapered taper tap and no bottoming tap so that needed ordered.

However, we now have a rolling chassis! I would like to get this running this weekend (in a rough shape) but I’m off to Copenhagen tomorrow so it’ll be next weekend. The drive will be simple enough to get going thankfully.


There’s so much more space, wiring this is going to be a breeze! Tapping the chassis has been a real ordeal, I should have paid the CNC guys to just do this. I’ve knackered a couple of holes at M3 size so those will need to be upped to M4 - I think M3 being so fine leaves very little margin for error as M4 is much easier to do. I’ve only done 1 chassis, the 2nd one I’ll be able to use what I’ve learned on chassis 1 but there definitely will be a better set of parts and a ropey set of parts!

I should have this running by the 25th, then we can focus on making it look good!

Much love :heart:

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Roll forming tap & cordless drill with the clutch set low makes tapping less of a chore. But even less of a fuss is making a factory bod do it in China. I used to do exactly what you did there, having them piloted and finishing them myself but lately I just spunk a drawing over and cut the hassle. Just make sure you spec your pitch.

Serious envy for Copenhagen. Went in February for a thing, thing ended up being cancelled and I just milled about the place for a week spending an extortionate amount of money on very little but very good stuff!